Central Florida Short Sales: Smart Bears or Scamming Bears? What say Pooh?

Reserved Parking For "The Lovely Wife"...TLW...ROAR!

Broker Bear...

Let me guess, Baby Bear and Papa Bear didn't even give us some honey for our time? :)

TLW...ROAR!

So goes the 100 acre woods. We have the same on our side of the mountain. No one wins especially the tax payers!-Dinah Lee

Since i post pictures of 4 legged bears I clicked on this right away. Well I was surprised. Thanks for the post it was interesting

BB, sounds like a Pooh scam to me...Hard to believe that Baby Bear did not make any payments for a year...and now Papa is going to help....I would tell baby bear get a job or two and pay his own mortgage.  I do not know Baby Bear's position..working or not...but hey not paying the mortgage...what gives.  Guess he knew the parents would help out.

BTW..love your photo Pooh Bear Photo...watch out for TLW (you know she keeps asking for ammo)  :-)

What fools, say I. Is there amy wonder the lenderbears are going bankrupt?

I'm curious if Grandma Bear & Papa Bear will end up getting Baby Bears Cave back.  There are many bears in my neck of the woods who aren't paying their mortgage and have lots of honey buried in the woods.

Bryant sounds like Baby Bear and Papa Bear think they have the system figured out and plan on taking advantage of it.  One year of living free in the property, and buying it back for 1/3 of the price.

Doesn't seem fair to the Bank, or you who ran around for them.

Forget about Smart Bear or Scamming Bear...that bear just pooped all over his neighboring bears and probably didn't even use toilet paper afterwards.

Bryant - It seems like there are a lot of bears out there right now doing the same thing.  I have talked to many in our woods, and they are all figuring out ways to beat the system similar to your story.  The sad thing is that the bears that are paying for their overpriced cave each and every month are not reaping any benefits from doing the right thing.

haha at Kris! Yup, those bears aren't good pooh bears.

B.B.- We say Pooh Pooh on that Bear Family... There are many bears like that in "these here neck of the woods" . Broker Bear might want to have something in the listing agreement for his protection to get a little taste of the honey for his hardworking self and Mrs. Broker Bear. That could be a good post too. The honey pot needs to not be emptied on bears who work the system. Possibly a post is coming on how to protect Broker Bear from being worked over by the Bad Bears!

Hmmm, wonder if Papa Bear is loaded with (cash or hot air) if is hot air ole baby bear might be moving in with the other bears!!!!  Then broker bear might have the last............, but no....

Bryant--Sounds like you got covered in Pooh! (Couldn't resist!)

But wonder if Baby Bear will lose out when it comes back on the market. How can they be certain someone else won't put in a better offer than theirs when the foreclosure comes on the market?

Broker bear got sucked in to playing game.... But Baby bear will be surprised when bank kicks baby bear out of cave and comes to me to sell the non-performing loan.   THen I find outside bear to buy loan at a discount (35 cents on the dollar of outstanding loan) and new note holder takes property over and sells it back on the open market or keeps it for himself.

Baby bear will just have to suck eggs then.... hopefully lesson will be learned...

Country Cave Bank set up the system.  Papa Bear worked the system.

Now see...

I knew if I stayed away from the Pooh you Guys would pick up my slack :)

TLW...ROAR!

Thar be bears of all types all over the place just waiting to try the scam thing. Where is Davey Crockett when you really need him. As for Country Cave Bank their arrogance deserves whatever they get.

Bryant- I think this is such a stupid rule. If the goal of Countrywide who is often a servicer for Fannie and Freddie scams bears to get the most net from the loss on the short what biz is it of theirs if anyone in the family buys the property. We could keep so many values up in neighborhoods if the short note owners would let the relatives buy. They even had a clause at WAMU that it could not even be a neighbor on the same street and that it could not be a friend!

Well, what constitutes a friend? A person you meet in Publix, say hi in the check out line, go out to lunch and then they say they are looking for a house, then you say, hey, my house is for sale.... does that make them a friend? And so what if it is a friend! You saved a house from foreclosure. Just what govt is supposed to want to do, but of course, they don't really want that. Then we might be out of 'emergencies'.

The other side to this is that on the buyer end, that lender is also looking for arms length transactions so unless the relative is paying all cash for the property they won't be able to buy it anyways. We had that happen when they were not related but did have the same last names. It became a big bear with not just the short lender but the buyer lender also.

Sorry- this is one of those subjects that gets me all ---- off!

Autumn finally came and the leaves changed. Baby Bear moved Soon to Be A Mama Bear and himself into the extra tunnel at Grandma Bears. Baby Bear carefully set an alarm clock for half past November to be up in time to buy back his own cave at "The Bear's" Sale for County Cave Bank.

Baby Bear and Papa Bear set out for the slope in front of the Bear Station and Court Cave. The woods were lovely this time of the year and it wasn't that long a trip. Every once in awhile they saw signs posted, but not being great thinkers they didn't read even the bold print let alone scan the fine print. They didn't worry they never did worry about things written or signed.

They should have read the signs and the mortgage he gave County Cave Bank to secure his promise to repay the money he borrowed. They should have read all those ominous notices sent to them. Instead Baby Bear knew from the Portly Crows that gathered any where there were two ears to listen that they were cheated by County Cave Bank and that Kenyon Bear had given Count Cave Bank money Baby Bear was entitled to!

Then within sight of the slope in front of the Bear Station and Court Cave, Baby and Papa heard two bangs and a loud supper sonic crack. It was the last thing Baby Bear heard, he was shot, he died there under one of those signs. Papa got shot in the rump roast, hit in the savings he was carrying, he lived long enough for a real thinker to explain they should have paid attention to those signs! "Bear season opens today!"

The moral of the story never take advice from the Portly Crows!

I've actually heard of real estate agents using this approach themselves, it's a crazy real estate world right now for sure!

OK, this was a good read from the post thu the comments. LOL @ Mr. Archambault, pretty funny, on top of a fantastic weave of a story from Broker Bear!

Nice picture.

And if it smells like shi cra pooh, it is poo... I know that for a fact.

Hello Broker Bear:  Unfortunately it sounds kind of normal how sick is that!  By the way I loved Terri's comment too...you have to look out for the Pooh!  Nicely done Bryant.

I brought this up on my own blog. I think the Arm's length thing is stupid. Some of my clients would be able to keep their homes if the banks allowed a reduced principal balance (or loan mod) with today's current interest rate, which is what a short sale is. Also, if the bank is willing to let it go for 50k, then why should they care if it sells to stranger steve or Uncle Joe? My only logical conclusion is it has to do with how banks write off loss and to deter fake hardships.

It's a difficult position to be in. If this was a member's only blog, I might be bold enough to share how I handle these situations. 

I wonder if they logged in the fact you asked if the family can buy the short sale. Maybe even raised some red flags. Did you really have to ask??

I have run into a few of these - a mother in default and son wants to buy.  They have attempted to work something out with the bank and then they sold the loan.  Seems the best for them to buy it as soon as it is listed as a foreclosure and pay what it is worth.  What they were trying to avoid is moving her out and then having to move her back in.  Fortunately, I have been a Realtor answering questions but didn't go through all the work you did without even a bit of "honey".

I say this is going to bite all the family bears in the butt! I just had a short sale listing go to auction, and the bank bought it back, themselves! These little scheming bears may end up living much farther apart  =/

Bryant- I was thinking about this tonight and wondered what if this happened:

The mother has 4 young children and is a WAHM, the husband gets cancer and their medical bills go through the roof. He then has to take time off of work to go to chemo, etc. The aunt or uncle or inlaws decide that they could buy the house and let the grandkids or nieces and nephews keep the home they are used to living in. What is so bad about that?

Remember, there are exceptions to every rule.

I've been asked that many times.

I can see how it could be a scam, but there are legitimate situations where this should be allowed.

Reminds me of :

When a man with $$$ meets a man with experience something interesting happens !

The man with experience winds up with the $$$ and the man with money($) NOW HAS AN EXPERIENCE !!!

When Timmy Bear first read the line in the first sentence of the second paragraph that says,

"Broker Bear went over and met with Baby Bear..."

Timmy Bear thought it said,

Broker Bear BENT over and met with Baby Bear...

at which time Timmy Bear thought... "sounds about right... been there, done that!"

Sorry dude! LOL

So where does Goldilocks figure in all of this? Pooh bear says "oh bother."

BB,

In the rural mountains of Sussex County NJ, we have lots of bears!  For a year, I've been in touch with single-lady bear who I suspect is running a scam, her cave hasn't been listed. Sheriff Bear will auction next month... Oh, Pooh!

I have seen this before, the Sesame Street syndrome. This is when grown men in the banking business have been watching too much PBS, and refuse to grow up and act like men. They need to become adults, throw away their childish things, and make decisions like they have their big panties on. Otherwise the Cookie Monster will steal all the goodies.

Sounds like a lot of BEAR POOH to me. 

I'm afraid there are many situations set up by institutions and golly gee, perhaps our government, that invite abuse. 

I think the bear family might get a surprise when it goes to foreclosure.  In our woods there are dozens of buyers lined up to buy foreclosed upon caves, trees and homey pots.  The price rises with each bid and the bears may find themselves out bid for the cave they love so dearly.  Oh pooh and I mean that in every way :-)

sounds more like eeyore.

Cindy beat me to it, same here in Akron Ohio. The original owner almost has no chance after foreclosure to make a "deal". Multiple offers are common place here and the Papa Bear will be caught not taking Broker Bears advice and will be one unhappy, hibernating in the woods arse!

BB

This is the second time I've seen your posts on the subject of strategic foreclosures. And it dosen't seem to make any difference how you present it. Straight up or in metaphor........ The reaction is nearly the same, Some folks say good for them, and others are upset to know that we bears have found another road out of the woods.  

As for me I say good for them. The road your bears have taken is a road laid out for them in the mortgage itself; (In the what happens in the case of default section) .  The mortgage  anticipates a possible default and lays out the consequences if the borrower fails to pay.  I would say that the borrower is not taking advantage of the lender, not asking for special favors, not morally corrupt but rather they are simply submitting to the terms of the mortgage....As long as they are willing to accept the consequences,  a default is a reasonable option allowed by the mortgage agreement between borrower and lender.

As for your time wasted trying to sell the bears home. The lesson I have learned here is to present all options to my potential clients...ie pay and stay, loan modification, bankruptcy, short sale and foreclosure. Even the buy and bail option and the option you have presented...ie let it go and buy it back options should be presented up front. There is always the chance a seller might change their mind in the middle of a listing contract. The chances are minimized if all options are presented up front

They system allows for this manipulation. Sometimes we get used (and abused) by buyers, sellers and those who pretend to be!

Broker B,

Bad bear!  Bad, bad bear!  This could be one of those times that it does not offend me when a bank plays hard ball.

That is too funny. I like the story using bears. That was really creative. Unfortunately it seems like a scam. Someone else would have sold it and be done with it. What can you do? Continue to be the best Broker Bear you can be!

Thanks for sharing your scenario with us this morning. I liked your creativity in a serious matter.

Just another example of the client wasting our time:(

Ahhhh......another story in the short sale saga!!! You know, I've realized one thing in this business.....it really takes all types, bears and all!

This goes to show that everyone is to blame for the mess we are in.

Well there is bearly anything left to add.  We have many bears like this running around in the phoenix desert - many.  And it's heating up for investor bears or homeowners bears that don't live in their bear caves for 6 consecutive months.  End of Sept - the anti deficiency goes away and they're on the hook for whatever is owning. Done.  Unless it gets repleaded.

This will change the game in Arizona for these kinds of bears.

That is pretty bad and I have seen a lot of these types of things going on - what comes around goes around... can you say retainer fee?

And if Baby Bear had found someone in the Bear Clan with a DIFFERENT last name, who would have been willing to purchase the property ... and if Baby Bear would have kept his mouth shut .... the deal would have been made.

You can never really know who is related to who unless they tell you ... and people with the same last name often are NOT related....

It's not that I'm condoning it .... I'm just sayin'

So it sounds like the entire Bear family lacks scruples.  Oh, but I bet they don't see it that way. They probably think they are savvy business people because they have concocted a way to "beat the system"  - I've seen this type. They're called bottom feeders.

Amazingly, this all started because the porridge was either too cold or too hot. :)

So, Bryant, have you applied for your bear hunting license yet?  They say revenge is sweet!

BB - wow, I'm just in shock at how ridiculous things have gotten.  What happened to common sense and smart business practices???

What can one add that trumps the grizzled responses above. Ya got some smart peeps in your ARcave.

Serves you right for feeding the bears ;)

BB & TLW -- hope this finds you folks well.

Whenever pots of honey are on the line, there will be bears trying to beat the system and get more than their fair share. 

Thanks for the best active rain laugh in quite awhile.  As home values start to creep back up, it will be harder for any bears to do this kind of thing - but there's always another scam out there somewhere.

Broker Bear- don't foreclosures have to be arms length transactions too?  My foreclosure listings do.  Would serve baby bear right if he has to move in with PAPA bear and stay there and watch some nice family you sell his cave too live happily ever after in his cave next door. HA HA.

[Then once it comes back on the market at a  foreclosure price Papa Bear will buy it back for Baby Bear. . .]

 . . . but then, multiple Bear offers ensue . . . and Papa/Baby are beaten by an all cash offer from another Bear!

THE END :)

Broker Bear, It seems we are hearing stories like this around here too.  I would say that these are scammer bears - and the taxpayer gets to pay more taxes in the end.

Hey BB,

What a fun story, too bad it ended badly...:( I am sorry you wasted your time, but such is in this market. I hope you have better luck, but I know this is only one of mayn transactions that we don't get paid for our time. 

-Lisa

That sucks, Bryant. Sorry you got bitten.

Yet another stupid banking rule takes more money out of my children's pockets in the years to come to subsidize the banking industry. Maybe my kids are better off putting their money into a real cave - or a mattress!!!

toooo clever....and yet sad. Always enjoy your blogs. Thanks for the efforts.

BB - Baby bear obviously was just looking out for himself, especially when bringing in a Buyer Bear. What remains to be seen is if Baby Bear really end up the his cave.

Smart Bears or Scamming Bears, depending on which side you on - I would say scamming bear because Broker Bear got squat :( unless there was a cancellation fee or retainer paid in advance.

Stuff happens. It is the nature of the bear when it comes to these short sales.  I've heard it called the Wild Wild West quite a few times.  Hopefully the father will actually be able to buy it at the cheap price.  Or instead it may sell with multiple offers and the father gets cut out of the deal and a stranger moves in. 

Don't most REO addendums say that the buyer attests that they are not related to the old foreclosed property owner?

I like Katerina's take on it: what if someone was truly in need of someone else, a relative, to buy their home from them so they could keep it?  Why shouldn't that be allowed?  If they can show the proof that something seriously catastrophic has occured, why can't family be allowed to help?

Bryant,

This  was very creative.

Brian

That's sad to hear...that's a true story of sellers scamming the system...sorry you didn't get anything for your time!

DM

I sure hope Broker Bear was able to cover expensive since Baby Bear was not so truthful and forth coming.

Oh pooh, Broker Bear...sometimes what goes around comes around and when Papa Bear goes to buy back the cave for Baby Bear it might be fun if Broker Bears original client, Buyer Bear, showed up and outbid him!

What a bummer BB!  We aren't swimming in short sales yet but when we are I know who to turn to.  BTW, Thanks so much for the applause and kind comment about my new firm!

OK so guys are cracking me up with yuor comments!!! The Bears are making a bad decision. As some have pointed out they are going to run up against the "arms length" thingie when the property becomes an REO as well.

This market can sure be frustrating!!!

I wish I had more to say but I thing you guys have it about covered.

I love Uncle Bill's add on. BAM!!! Got me a Bear!

The labs at MIT need to develop a few algorithms (not hard to do) to sniff this type of stuff out, perhaps a quasi GIS/Law Enforcement system that flashes red on a map showing family relations, geography, etc. for this kind of thing.

I think a smart & wise broker bear would move onto the next cave without ever going inside that dark and scary cave...........

Goldilocks (Me)...

Didn't get any fresh porridge. So she decided to eat leftover porridge. She became ill because she swallowed a bear hair :)

TLW...ROAR!

Oh poopie...stinks up to high heaven.  And one think about a stink...people usually go looking for where it came from.  My gut says that the 'happy ever after' will be short lived 'cause dishonesty has a way of contaminating everything it touches.  Great analogy & post. :)

I say, Pooh Pooh on them.  What goes around comes around...  Doesn't pooh run downhill?

What say pooh!  Oh, that's so funny.  I want to focus on that . . . the real story is pooh much!

I knew there would be trouble when Congress started pushing FHA to lend to bears. Did Baby Bear get himself into this predicament because he was using his home as a honeypot?

Too bad some bears can't get nailed on a fraud charge...

And now Baby Bear may be able to rent his own cave from Country Cave Bank.  Country Cave Bank may have to take Baby Bear as a tenant even though he didn't make his house payments. 

Broker Bear needs to add this contingency into his listing contract so if this decision is made at the last moment, Broker Bear and TLW Bear still get some honey/porridge.

BB-  At least you have managed to "grin and Bear it" 

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but here I wouldn't expect Papa Bear to be able to buy back the home. Guess he should plan on moving in with the other bears.

I would think the bank/asset manager would do a little research into the prospective buyer and notice that Papa Bear was Baby Bear's father and they were trying to run a scam.  It really wouldn't take much effort on the bank's part to do this bit of research.  Good post and best of luck.

Well like one of your previous posts stated, it may not be ethical, but financially it makes sense...i have a hard time swallowing that honey.

It's a difficult position to be in. If this was a member's only blog, I might be bold enough to share how I handle these situations.

I'd be interested about how to get around that arms-length transaction regulation.  Every time I try it, it ususally involves some form of fraudulent action.  Might you share with us, on your blog, how to handle these situations?

If I were you, I'd buy it from the bank and screw scamming bear at his own game.  Let him buy it from you.

Those bears are nasty.  Let TLW get the ammo.  Then, let's make sure that we have honey in our pots when these crazy bears come calling.  We sometimes ask for a non-refundable deposit if the home doesn't sell, refundable, of course, when it does.  Lots of work goes into short sales, and we need our honey, too.  *&^%$ those bears.  Sorry! 

This market is creating scammerbears, downtrodden bears and everything in-between. Realtorbears have to work very hard to try to determine the difference as early as possible.

Dear Broker Bear,

That is a sad story. Its a shame those wicked bears did not realize your hard work was work something. That foreclosure will follow them around forever.

;)

Sad story, but if the mortgage company would have just allowed a "family - bailout" in the first place, it wouldn't have gotten to that point.  If papa bear buys the house for baby bear in foreclosure, it doesn't matter that baby bear has a fc on his credit.  he still has his house to live in.

tina in virginia